My Brother

[Sparrisen]

Eh

Okay

My brother is somewhat strange. I was a total bitch to him as a kid, I terrorized him like crazy, and if I wouldn't have had the enlightened parents I had, I probably would have managed to turn them against him. I guess I fucked him up some, and then school came, and life came, and it's been continuing down that path.

He was just a gentle, kind kid. Life chewed on him and spit him out.

Now he's kinda turning emo-goth, attention whore.

He has accomplished pretty much NOTHING since he quit school, like 8 years ago. He's still a bitch.

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Now, he's a smart fuck to the extent that he'd be a genious doctor. He has a grasp of detail that is unparallelled, whereas *I* see the wide strokes, *he* sees every detail and remember it.
If he learned medicin, he would KNOW what every symptom might be related to, whereas I'd be "oh fuck" and to look it up. He has that amazing kind of memory, that's just godlike.

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Further more, if he got in to medschool, he'd have the kind of life he always wanted, a sense of progress, a supportive community, eventually a job where he would come to sense with himself as a Man, taking reposibility, and being the one, the ONLY one who knows best.
(and I'd like him to realize that, and acclaim, that that's not really that fucking fantastic, so he can stop being an attentionwhore.)

Eventually, he'd be Man enough to attract a GOOD QUALITY lady and get me some nephews.
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I've told him this. He says shit like "how do I know if it will feel right for me?", "I need to sit two weeks in a corner with no-one around and think this through", "I wish someone could just ORDER me to do something, I think I'd've liked to have been in nazi-germany..."

To which I say:
"GO TO MEDSCHOOL"
and he says
"You're not dominant enough."

Frankly, he's been slipping down this hole of dark shit long enough now, hanging out with fetish animal rights people, goth political activists, emo retards - basically everyone who society cast out and decided to feel like shit and write poems instead of actually doing anything about it. Give up and settle in despair, instead of saying "fuck you, I'm worth more! I might go down, but I will do so fighing (and take you down with me you fucktards)." He's been slipping into the dark side of life SOO LONG now, that I'm beginning to doubt his male core.

I'm starting to doubt he's a man inside. I feel the same way a dad would feel if his son came out of the closet claiming he's gay. A form of emptiness, followed by acceptance, because that's just the way it is. But still the emptiness.

Frankly, I don't know if I respect him enough now, to think society would GAIN from him being a doctor. And I don't know if he would even FIND that man inside, instead of the attentionwhore that wants someone to tell him he's a "good boy".

Maby, now, he's a bitch for life. And it's partly my fault, because I was such an ass to him as a kid, started him out the wrong way.

___________________________

Right now, he left to another city, leaving my sphere of influence. He's gonna "search for a job (some shit burger job probably" he might wanna word within the red cross or sexual education. Personally, I wonder why people with fucked up sexuality always study Gender Sience, or preach about sexuality. Everyone who's satisfied with their sexlife, just shuts up about it and goes along with it, while the people who failed to become sexual in their gender the way society encourages, goes about to tell people how they should go about it, like as if THEY would have a FUCKING CLUE what actually WORKS for the VAST MAJORITY of PEOPLE.

Anyhow, I'm on the verge of accepting my brother as a bitch, as a woman inside, without the strenght to do what is RIGHT without "But it FEELS...blahblah". When he left right now, do carry out his weak plan of doing basically nothing for the remainder of his life, I said.
"Medschool?"
"blah blah, indecisive bullshit"
...(pause)...
"Alright, you do what you want."

And you know what he did?

He went over and patted me on my head, and said "I like you!" "At least you care."

JUST LIKE A FUCKING WOMAN would do if you gave her the right to power in some area of the relationship, that you KNOW you actually shouldn't do. You let her do the yoga course with the people you know will turn her into a sectlike vegetable (inside, you know this is the wrong desicion, and you SHOULD have had the dominance to say "no"). You give her the power to decide on her OWN for once, and she LIKES it in the moment, she feels the surge of "YES! I managed to get my will through!", but in the LONG run, it leads to her respecting you LESS as a man, therefore being LESS attracted, and thus LESS happy, since a relationship means a lot to a woman.


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So he said this to me. And now I don't know what to do.
I think I could give him shit (for his own good!<- the way it works best) and bully him into medschool, by telling him how useless his life is, and will be if he continues being useless.

This isn't the way I would treat a MAN, (hence why I haven't done so). A man I would just lay out the options, and I'd let him choose (of course making the better option sound enticing, from his perspective).

But seriously, I don't even know if he's suitable for this anymore. I know he probably lacks the ability NOW to make a desicion of his OWN though. This is the time to make a change if a change should be made, next year, he'll be even a bigger bitch, if I don't turn the direction of the train, but I don't know if I should even do that.
I don't know. Any opinions?

[Nightmare]

"I think I could give him shit (for his own good!<- the way it works best) and bully him into medschool, by telling him how useless his life is, and will be if he continues being useless. "

Seriously? You actually think that would work?

[Waihirere]

I think I could give him shit (for his own good!<- the way it works best) and bully him into medschool, by telling him how useless his life is, and will be if he continues being useless.

You might want to read some psychology before you try this. Hopefully it'll make you realize that this approach rarely if ever works. It may generate some hatred though, so if you want to alienate your brother and drive him deeper in his pit, go right ahead.

Any opinions?

How about you get the fuck off his back and let him live his own life?
You can't (well you can try, but you shouldn't) go around forcing people to live by your standards.

Oh, and if you really want to help him, you need to learn to respect him first.

Don't take this as a flame, because it is not meant as one.
Just my 2 cents, since you asked for opinions.

[Sparrisen]

You know, I sat thinking for like half an hour before responding here.
I really appreciate the feedback by the way.

1: I some times have a hard time respecting other peoples ability and courage, when it's regarding: Having a vision of what they want, and, going about getting it.

This is true for my family as well.

My father wants to sell his company, even though he logically realizes it's what keeps him fit and mentally on his toes. To do - nothing. Watch TV all day. I can see this leading to unhappyness on an express-lane. But - who knows.

My other brother, who is also a genius, has spent the last 6 years on developing a new kind of forum. Or rather, making this forum, is his excuse for not doing anything ELSE, while he spends most of his time making excuses, not to make his forum.
He realizes logically this is fucked up, but doesn't do anything about it. After 6 years his forum is still not functioning well enough to even allow for any feedback.


The one brother in my question here, he knows he loves biology, learning, developing himself, meeting people, being useful and helpful, and while he sees that, his reasons not wanting to take the PATH that LEADS there, is that "he doesn't want to commit".
Still he sits around all depressed thinking how to spend his life. He's been thinking for seven years now, and I only see that brooding getting darker, and making him even more unhappy.

I see a submissive core there, a wish for someone else to lean on to help them through, on a daily basis. A lot more men than it used to, in scandinavia, have been pushed into this submissive state by society, feminism, and disney hypnotization at young age.

But if they have a grain of their natural dominance left, they can learn to use it, and be happy with that newfound power. LOOK at doctors, they TURN into authorative figures, because that's what they're faced with, everyday.
I'm just wondering if he has that grain left, to make that grow.

So generally, PUSHING him there, to you guys, seems like a bad way, even if he doesn't have the power himself go there.
Could you give me some other PRACTICALLY APPLICABLE way?

[Sparrisen]

Also wahi, there is a saying, that you can't see a fault in another, if you don't possess the same fault yourself. In christianity, to us, this was formulated by Jesus saying something about "seeing a grain in your friends eye, but not the bulk in your own".

How about you get the fuck off his back and let him live his own life?
You can't (well you can try, but you shouldn't) go around forcing people to live by your standards.

Don't take this as a flame, because it is not meant as one.

This is remarkably similair to the approach I would use to "push" my brother into doing something, formulated by me as:

I think I could give him shit (for his own good!<- the way it works best)

I'm just noticing, I think it's kind of funny. There is something to it, when you say I should respect him though, but doesn't that mean, respect his choices and his ability to make those happen? Which, would kind of translate into "don't do shit - assume your brother knows whats up", or?

[Waihirere]

Also wahi, there is a saying, that you can't see a fault in another, if you don't possess the same fault yourself. In christianity, to us, this was formulated by Jesus saying something about "seeing a grain in your friends eye, but not the bulk in your own".

This is remarkably similair to the approach I would use to "push" my brother into doing something

Lol, indeed, but there's also the saying "fight fire with fire"

Anyway, the key difference I see is that I'm not really trying to force (or even convince) you to do anything. I'm just sharing my view.

If you want to convince your brother (or anybody else in general) to do something, "pushing" rarely works. It may work with some people, who get motivated by a bit of pressure. For example, I wouldn't be surprised if that approach works with you. I know if people do it skilfully enough, it may work with me. But based on what you told about your brother, I would guess it probably doesn't work very well with him.

when you say I should respect him though, but doesn't that mean, respect his choices and his ability to make those happen?

It means respect his choices and respect the way he chooses to live his life.

He may still need help to make those happen, though.

Which, would kind of translate into "don't do shit - assume your brother knows whats up", or?

Not really, no.

What it does mean is that you shouldn't force your help on him. If you want to help him, just ask him how. Encourage him. Help him analyze his situation. Help him find the courage to take the first steps.

People tend to grow when they're trusted and encouraged.

Oh, and try to make him realize that there is no such thing as 'not committing'. He has already committed to 7 years of doing "nothing". Not choosing is a choice in itself. And quite often it is one of the worst choices a person can make.

But odds are he already knows all this and is just scared to choose. So respect him and help him make those choices, but in a way that is meaningful to him, not in a way you think will/should work.

In the end you can't live the lives of other people for them. They may not share your preferences or goals. And you should respect that. One of the things that makes a population strong is wide variety of different opinions and perspectives.

I see a submissive core there, a wish for someone else to lean on to help them through, on a daily basis. A lot more men than it used to, in scandinavia, have been pushed into this submissive state by society, feminism, and disney hypnotization at young age.

I call bullshit on this one.

I agree that it is definitely happening, but I don't agree with the reasons you give.

And I don't think the correct goal should be dominance, since that implies dominating others to get your will. I would rather call it independence. Being your own man, so to speak. Making your own decisions and pursuing your own goals. You don't have to dominate others to do that.

There's usually a win-win scenario, if you look for it hard enough. The problem is, most people don't. They either give up or try to force others into accepting their view.

In my opinion the main reason for this change is that people are feeling helpless. They're feeling like they don't control their own lives. They've been grown by the system and gotten told what to do all their lives. They have gotten used to blaming the system instead of trying to fix their problems themself. They do not realize that in the end, the society doesn't exist to take care of you. It is just an agreement between a bunch of people that they'll try to co-operate, help each other and live by certain rules. That's all it is. And thus the society doesn't owe them anything, despite their opposite claims. It may choose to give them certain things, but it doesn't really owe them anything.

LOOK at doctors, they TURN into authorative figures, because that's what they're faced with, everyday.

I could tell you countless of examples where this has turned bad, really bad. (But I won't, since they've been communicated to me in confidence.) So I'm not sure that turning into that kind of an authoritative figure is a good thing. I see it more as an occupational hazard.

There's good doctors out there, but the authoritative ones are typically not among them.

[Sparrisen]

talked to him and tried to be as supportive, and not pushy, as I could. I asked him how he wanted me to help him. And I sat listening for a very long time (props to emerys for teaching me how to listen).

Well, I don't know if it did anything, we'll see.

[Faro]

Seems to me that you fucked him up (at least partially by your own admission) So now you are responsible for him. Either fixing him or supporting him....your problem... in some kind of surreal Buddist karma thing. Good luck.

[Sparrisen]

Fuck. Peptalk didn't work.

"so you searched some jobs. Did you try for medschool?"

"No... I don't know if I want to. I don't want to go into something again, when I'm not certain it's something I want."

"But you can't know if you WANT it until you TRIED. We sat down and talked about this, from what you know now, it seems like the perfect thing for you."

"I don't want to go into something again, when I'm not CERTAIN it's something I want."

...
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"When is your exam Erik? Are you going to stay after that?"

I view this question with suspicion. "the 4th of june. Why do you ask?" I ask this sternly and pointedly.

He says somewhat defensively and hurt "I wonder how long I have to socialize with you, until your gone again. I like to talk with you."

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I'm washing up, and my brother comes up hugging me from behind. I saw him go out in his jogging pants earlier, so I imagine him being all fucking sweaty.

"EEEUUUUCHH!! GET THE **FUCK** AWAY!" - I scream.

I expect to see him looking defiantly at me when I turn around, some kind of fighting spirit in his eyes meeting my aggression with some of his own. Instead he fades away. Shies back. I see in his eyes that he's hurt. He's not sweaty at all, I guess he just took a walk.

"I'm sorry I thought you were sweaty..." I say as he stands there meekly

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WTF. What has happened. This guy is adrift. I think maby his male core flickered and died when I was gone. A woman would behave this way. This is not the brother I left.

He seems to appreciate to have someone to talk to. Someone who cares and gives a shit.

But when it's time to actually DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT, he does nothing. Nothing that will put him in a better situation, but only things that lead to more disappointment.

I don't talk to him about these things, because I just wanna sit around and talk. I talk enough useless bullshit with girls, listening to them tell me about the reoccurrent themes I've heard time and time again from different mouths.

Since emerys taught me how to listen, I've heard so much useless emotional crap from people without purpose or direction, that frankly, now I damn well prefer talking. Only people I take care to listen to now, is people who deserve it.

I talk to him about these things, to find out a good path, put him on it, and see him get a life he's happy with. To in the end, fucking do something about it.
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I heard from my dad today that he's going to sell vaccum cleaners. This fucking sucks.

1: As a lowlife salesman like this, your salesman-chief only cares about money, and will try to use you as much as possible, giving you as little help as he can, and will treat you like shit at every turn if he's able to.

2: People you sell to tend to hate you and treat you like shit, even when you're high-confident, funny and smiling, because, it's socially OK to give a salesman shit, so people do it. If he couldn't take it, he wouldn't be a sales man.

Furthermore he has set up a meeting with a pshychologist this june, asking my dad to come as well.

I can see this psychologist being seriously more stupid than my brother, who is despite his shortcomings, really fucking smart. Possibly he's going to diagnose my brother and treat him like he's a sick person. Treat someone like they're cool, and they turn out cool. Treat someone like they're sigh and they turn out sick. Maby he can help though, I don't know.

I can't see it turning out good.

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He's looking for answers, but there fucking IS none. The only purpose you have, is the one you make for yourself.

I don't really know what to do guys. To fix this guy's ego he needs guaranteed positive attention, IMO. A man gets this by BEING cool, not TRYING TO BE cool. If you're NOT cool, you're gonna get shit.

A girl get's positive attention because of her tits.

He doesn't see that if he tries to be a "good boy" expecting a pat on the head, the world will just fuck around with him.

A job like a bartender would be perfect. Guaranteed positive attention. Salesman is pure shit. He could find confidence in the long medschool education, which I KNOW he'd EXCEL in, by the support of the awesome medschool students and all the fun they have. He'd be ready once it's time to man up.

but HE DOESN'T TAKE THE NECCECARY steps. He sits around and THINKS in CIRCLES about what to do. Make intricate plans about pro and cons and finally comes out with something devestating like selling vaccum cleaners, even though we talked about, and ANALYZED logically what makes him happy in a job:

A Community to hang around with
A Chance to develop yourself
Making a differance

You *CAN* develop yourself as a salesman, if you stop letting people judge you. But he's not there yet. This job has NONE of the things we talked about.

I don't know how to help him. I seem to have to treat him like porclain, but then I just don't make an impact. I would like to be a bulldozer, but I no longer know if that's a good Idea either. Any suggestions?

[Nightmare]

Get him a girlfriend.

Just make sure she's not emo aswell.