What is your current opinion on the BLC beta

[Nightmare]

Like DS with only Prowlers, no relics and no click-to-move.

You said it, doc.

[Bernhardt]

You guys have to remember that just like with Dawnspire, you have to have friends to play with to keep it interesting. That's what team games are all about.

If you, on the other hand, sit in a dark room alone, composing your conspiracy theories, not interacting with other players, you wont get much out of BLC, or Dawnspire for that matter. If you are reluctant to accept this, remember how small the Dawnspire community was and how everyone felt like friends. BLC might seem like a colder environment for this reason. No one will drag you out of your shell and force you to be anyone's friend - you have to make an effort yourself. If you don't have it in you, you wont get much out of online gaming in general.

About game modes, yes I agree, eventhough Conquest is a step in the right direction, there's still room for improvement in strategic depth. This might get fixed as the Beta keeps progressing in its Closed, and finally, Open stage.

[Hullu]

I like Conquest. All I need are maps for now.

I also like penis-cake with Hyps. Or was it cock-pie...

[Nightmare]

You guys have to remember that just like with Dawnspire, you have to have friends to play with to keep it interesting. That's what team games are all about.

Well not really. Sure having friends makes the game (more) interesting, but then again even going to a barbershop with friends is fun, but I certainly wouldn't go there alone just for the "fun" of it. Also I remember several loners from DS who never wrote on the forums or were in any guilds but they still seemed to enjoy the game as it was.

It's a team game yeah, but if new players are required to have friends already in the game or instantly make some (which I'm not saying is the case atm) in order to enjoy the game, then it's very unlikely that the game is going to attract wide audiences. Which it needs to in order to survive, not that huge playerbase automatically increases the quality of the game in any way.

[Hullu]

I would have not played DS for long if it wasn't for Blue Hero.

[Bernhardt]

Well not really. Sure having friends makes the game (more) interesting, but then again even going to a barbershop with friends is fun, but I certainly wouldn't go there alone just for the "fun" of it. Also I remember several loners from DS who never wrote on the forums or were in any guilds but they still seemed to enjoy the game as it was.

It's a team game yeah, but if new players are required to have friends already in the game or instantly make some (which I'm not saying is the case atm) in order to enjoy the game, then it's very unlikely that the game is going to attract wide audiences. Which it needs to in order to survive, not that huge playerbase automatically increases the quality of the game in any way.

I don't remember any loners in DS enjoying the game for long. I believe even the hardcore soloists had atleast one friend to stack with. It's a long while ago though. Even if there would have been supposed loners, it would just contribute to my point of the DS community being small enough to make it feel like everyone knew eachother. Hence, no one was really alone.

Barbershops aside, I suggested that I believe that you guys let the fact that BLC community isn't the old and cozy DS community where you established a certain level of success and fame affect your opinion on the BLC gameplay. It's cold and you don't have it in you to start over. This must be the case, as some of you are stating how disappointed you are, eventhough the game is still in Closed Beta. Rather strong words, I say, as we've had various gameplay tweaks and new content. The fundamental gameplay can't be changed? Well, I don't know how one could trick oneself in believing something else than what a simple youtube clip can indicate.

Lastly, there's always the option to simply not have anything to do with a game you don't like. Fortunately for me the boys from BH, Hyps and some new acquaintances from BLC have enjoyed the game enough to keep it interesting. We'll keep enjoying the game and see how it progresses.

[Myrmox]

If you, on the other hand, sit in a dark room alone, composing your conspiracy theories, not interacting with other players, you wont get much out of BLC, or Dawnspire for that matter.

There I was, thinking my dislike of BLC was based on the lack of an appealing control UI and strategies other than "kill-ze-other-d00ds", when in fact it was all about me being an autistic psychotic without friends. Silly me  

I might give it another shot to try conquest. And kill a few d00ds

[Bernhardt]

There I was, thinking my dislike of BLC was based on the lack of an appealing control UI and strategies other than "kill-ze-other-d00ds", when in fact it was all about me being an autistic psychotic without friends. Silly me  

How else are you planning to enjoy a game fundamentally designed for e-Sports? If you have no friends, you have no teamwork. If you have no teamwork, why should you trouble yourself with strategical depth?

I might give it another shot to try conquest. And kill a few d00ds

A spark of patience and productivity. That being said, I'd like to hear your take on the Conquest game mode, after you've had the chance to try it out. Like I stated earlier, I for one think it's a step in the right direction in adding strategical depth to the game, but I'm still hoping for a more complex game mode, or simply another map to see what it can become.

[Persus]

I posted my thoughts on conquest on the BLC forum. It boiled down to this from my point of view. It is by far the best game mode they have, similar to Shrine Dom in it's main game mechanic, capture the locations on the map. The map is of a good size but I felt there were to many points to capture (3 in total). It spread the small teams of 5 thinly across the map. I would prefer 2 point to concentrate the action. Finally the respawn time increases as the game goes on. I don't feel this is very conducive to an enjoyable gaming experience, as the less experienced player will spend much of their time watching a respawn timer instead of playing.

I get Bernhardts point about a game aimed at e-sports being more enjoyable with friends you bring or make in the community. The hardcore will always be the ones that keep a game alive long after the masses have gone. But in saying that they still need to appeal to the casual gamer and at present I don't think it's quite there.

[Nightmare]

Even if there would have been supposed loners, it would just contribute to my point of the DS community being small enough to make it feel like everyone knew eachother. Hence, no one was really alone.

By that logic, as the community in BC now is about the same size as it was in DS, everyone knows eachother and there aren't any loners. But then you go on and on how some of us must feel like it's cold place and all that, because we're "outside"... Consistency?

[Sparrisen]

I think consitancy is a little bit boring. Inconsitancy, chaos, is not only more fun, it's more inviting and easier for everyone to leave a suitable contribution. It's lessening the reprimand issue, since it's actually hard to be wrong if you are very inconsistent, also promoting more parts to join the fray.

In comparioson, a discussion ruled by an obsessive amount of consistancy seems to turn into a pissing contest one way or the other. Meaning that one part usually will LOOSE also leading to a uncomfortably social climate, since being social should be a "every body wins" type of thing.

[Bernhardt]

By that logic, as the community in BC now is about the same size as it was in DS, everyone knows eachother and there aren't any loners. But then you go on and on how some of us must feel like it's cold place and all that, because we're "outside"... Consistency?

Are you really going to turn this into a stereotypical internet argument for people who have nothing else to do but scrutinise everything being said until a convenient approach is found to prolong a relatively meaningless discussion?

If you are going to lecture a student of philosophy on logic, atleast check the premise of your argument first. BLC community isn't the same size as the Dawnspire community. If you feel that I stated something like that in my previous messages, you've misunderstood. While Dawnspire was played by 32 players at peak times, for a very limited time in the history of Dawnspire, BLC in its Closed Beta state is played by around 100-150. Also, in Dawnspire these 32 players were located between two servers, which enabled the community to develop into a very tight pack, whereas BLC is played from everything between 1vs1 and 5vs5. This means that the BLC community, that is already bigger than the Dawnspire community mind you, is scattered even further into small public and private games. On top of all this the "smallness" of the Dawnspire community arose from the geographical and cultural vicinity of the members of the community (Finland/Sweden) and their overall open and active approach to the community (lots of discussion and even RL events in Finland/Sweden).

On the topic of consistency, you said it yourself somewhere here on these forums how you are disappointed in the community of BLC. You mentioned some forms of "eliteness", I believe. This might have played a role of somekind in the process of analysing what's really bothering you about BLC in your case. Unlike in Dawnspire, you aren't a part of this "elite" and it bugs you. You aren't active in-game, on the forums, in IRC, or even within your own guild. All this contributes to no one realising your existence in BLC. "To hell with it then", you think.

And that's not all, no, even if we'd be to exclude everything provided by me to support my standpoint in this particular message, let it be you having it in you to counter all of my arguments, or simply for sake of exercise, you are alone in the BLC community, aren't you? Forget everything being said just now, come forward and entertain the thought of simply admitting it. It doesn't really matter if you are alone in a trivial PC game that has no relevancy in the real world, but as this meaningless point is what caused you to prolong this, again, a relatively meaningless discussion, forget all my previous arguments and settle this by stating are you, or are you not, for ANY explicit or implicit reason, alone in the BLC community.

[Nightmare]

Are you really going to turn this into a stereotypical internet argument for people who have nothing else to do but scrutinise everything being said until a convenient approach is found to prolong a relatively meaningless discussion?

Hehe, internet arguments aside, but what is really the meaning of this discussion? Are you just trying to point out that my opinions about the game (and/or the community) are unfair due to the facts you've presented? That because I'm not a core member of the community then my opinions are not as valid as they could be? Or is there something else?

This is important because it's kind of hard to take part in a discussion if its purposes or motives are unclear.

In any case, to answer your questions:

You aren't active in-game

Not at the moment, but I'm fairly certain I will again in the days and weeks to come.

On the forum

Actually I'm pretty active there. I read the majority of the posts there and comment on the most important ones.

in IRC

True

or even within your own guild

Well to be frank, I don't currently consider myself to be a member of any guild (well here in "our little world" atleast)

To sum it up: No, I don't feel like I'm alone in the BC community. If I did then I certainly wouldn't waste any time reading the forums or planning to play the game in the future (by loading all the patches for example) or by writing in this topic.

[Sparrisen]

pissing contest

[Bernhardt]

Hehe, internet arguments aside, but what is really the meaning of this discussion? Are you just trying to point out that my opinions about the game (and/or the community) are unfair due to the facts you've presented? That because I'm not a core member of the community then my opinions are not as valid as they could be? Or is there something else?

This is important because it's kind of hard to take part in a discussion if its purposes or motives are unclear.

Oh, I just love it when my own rhetorics are used against me. While I only dismissed your analogy, you used it to conveniently dodge a collection of my arguments and *still* continue to argue on the same topic. The purpose of this current discussion is like I said earlier:

Barbershops aside, I suggested that I believe that you guys let the fact that BLC community isn't the old and cozy DS community where you established a certain level of success and fame affect your opinion on the BLC gameplay.

What is prolonging this phase in the discussion is that you for some reason decided to argue with me on whether or not you are alone in the BLC community, eventhough it's rather clear that you are, for the reasons previously explained by me, and you expressing how you are disappointed in the community yourself. For this reason we haven't gotten to continue our discussion about the actual gameplay, or even the possibility of you being alone in the BLC community affecting your current opinion on BLC. This is what stereotypical internet arguments are all about. Water it down from the start.

In any case, to answer your questions: Not at the moment, but I'm fairly certain I will again in the days and weeks to come. ... Actually I'm pretty active there. I read the majority of the posts there and comment on the most important ones. ...True ... Well to be frank, I don't currently consider myself to be a member of any guild (well here in "our little world" atleast)

To sum it up: No, I don't feel like I'm alone in the BC community. If I did then I certainly wouldn't waste any time reading the forums or planning to play the game in the future (by loading all the patches for example) or by writing in this topic.

It's irrelevant what you plan to do, or might establish in the future. What matters is if you are alone in the BLC community right now, like I suspected. Reading content doesn't really contribute to being an active member of a community. It takes some form of interacting as well. With a hefty amount of 40 posts in, what, 4 months, I wouldn't count myself active at all. Of course you couldn't just admit this rather clear setup, but start arguing from the start. It's what stereotypical internet arguments are all about.

I don't think your opinions and observations are invalid at all, but suggest that they might pick up an unfairly negative tone for the mentioned reason. It's okay to have negative thoughts about the game, but we should come forward with our angle to be constructive about it.